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	<title>Comments on: Misunderstanding Magic Quadrants, MarketScopes, and More</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/</link>
	<description>A member of the Gartner Blog Network</description>
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		<title>By: Magic Quadrant or Magic Numbers? A Judge Will Decide. &#171; The Effective Marketer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-2138</link>
		<dc:creator>Magic Quadrant or Magic Numbers? A Judge Will Decide. &#171; The Effective Marketer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/#comment-2138</guid>
		<description>[...] a few). Gartner analysts try as they might to correct what they see as misunderstandings again and again are facing an uphill [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a few). Gartner analysts try as they might to correct what they see as misunderstandings again and again are facing an uphill [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Holincheck</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-1485</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Holincheck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/#comment-1485</guid>
		<description>Anonymous,

That is common misperception.  For example, in the most recent MQ I  published (Magic Quadrant for Employee Performance Management Software) one of the leaders is not a client.  Being a client does not impact placement on the MQ.  Also, regardless of whether or not the vendor is a client, each rated vendor has the opportunity in the fact checking part of the process to understand why we rated them the way we did.  

However, most vendor clients (I know there are certainly some that have the same misperception) become clients so that they can get access to more insights about the market, what is on the minds of end users, and how their solutions stack up against the competition (among other things).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous,</p>
<p>That is common misperception.  For example, in the most recent MQ I  published (Magic Quadrant for Employee Performance Management Software) one of the leaders is not a client.  Being a client does not impact placement on the MQ.  Also, regardless of whether or not the vendor is a client, each rated vendor has the opportunity in the fact checking part of the process to understand why we rated them the way we did.  </p>
<p>However, most vendor clients (I know there are certainly some that have the same misperception) become clients so that they can get access to more insights about the market, what is on the minds of end users, and how their solutions stack up against the competition (among other things).</p>
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		<title>By: Misunderstanding Magic Quadrants, MarketScopes, and More &#171; SageCircle Blog</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-1484</link>
		<dc:creator>Misunderstanding Magic Quadrants, MarketScopes, and More &#171; SageCircle Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/#comment-1484</guid>
		<description>[...] was therefore refreshing to see a blog post on the Gartner Blog network by Jim Holincheck entitled Misunderstanding Magic Quadrants, MarketScopes, and More where he talks a bit about criteria transparency and the way these reports should be used.  It [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was therefore refreshing to see a blog post on the Gartner Blog network by Jim Holincheck entitled Misunderstanding Magic Quadrants, MarketScopes, and More where he talks a bit about criteria transparency and the way these reports should be used.  It [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-1483</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/#comment-1483</guid>
		<description>What is most interesting to me is that once the vendor engages the Analyst firm for &quot;consulting&quot; they somehow magically get bumped in the Magic Quadrant to a favorable place?

Do we need an &quot;independent&quot; entity that doesn&#039;t rely on revenues from vendors to rate this vendors? We are all familiar with the mess created by the financial rating agencies (Moody&#039;s, etc) which relied on fees from financial institutions to rate their debt products.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is most interesting to me is that once the vendor engages the Analyst firm for &#8220;consulting&#8221; they somehow magically get bumped in the Magic Quadrant to a favorable place?</p>
<p>Do we need an &#8220;independent&#8221; entity that doesn&#8217;t rely on revenues from vendors to rate this vendors? We are all familiar with the mess created by the financial rating agencies (Moody&#8217;s, etc) which relied on fees from financial institutions to rate their debt products.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Holincheck</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-1477</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Holincheck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/#comment-1477</guid>
		<description>Evan,

There are certainly perceptions about &quot;goodness&quot; and &quot;badness&quot; about  dots on a MQ.  It would be disingenuous to say that it does not matter to some customers.  However, most clients that I talk to via inquiry with want to find the best solution for their needs.  They do not really care if it is in the upper right hand quadrant.  I know that is not what most vendors think.  That is one of the reasons that I did the post.

We are more transparent on criteria than we used to be (we now show the criteria and relative weight), but, personally (and this is my opinion) I would like to see us expose more detail of the evaluation.  In some of the research, like Critical Capabilities, the evaluation criteria and weightings are spelled out very specifically.  It is my personal hope that we show more in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evan,</p>
<p>There are certainly perceptions about &#8220;goodness&#8221; and &#8220;badness&#8221; about  dots on a MQ.  It would be disingenuous to say that it does not matter to some customers.  However, most clients that I talk to via inquiry with want to find the best solution for their needs.  They do not really care if it is in the upper right hand quadrant.  I know that is not what most vendors think.  That is one of the reasons that I did the post.</p>
<p>We are more transparent on criteria than we used to be (we now show the criteria and relative weight), but, personally (and this is my opinion) I would like to see us expose more detail of the evaluation.  In some of the research, like Critical Capabilities, the evaluation criteria and weightings are spelled out very specifically.  It is my personal hope that we show more in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Quinn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-1476</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/#comment-1476</guid>
		<description>Hi Jim.  I think what you present is the Gartner inside-out viewpoint, and that certainly is helpful.  But MQs and to a much lesser degree MarketScopes do not live in a vacuum of Gartner research. You allude to it briefly and somewhat cynically, but their real applicability, where they come alive, is in the market place. We have all heard of how a picture is worth a thousand words, and like it or not, the snap judgment made by the vast MQ reading population is &quot;upper right hand quadrant = good, lower left quadrant = bad, other quadrants = not so good.&quot;  This is not a vendor issue, it is human perception, and in this hurry up world where snapshots are replacing the truly written word, the superficial rather than in-depth consumption of MQs is increasing. It is naive to think that all IT consumers of MQs &quot;get it.&quot;

Gartner&#039;s long-standing lack of transparency on MQs makes matters worse.  Even if you do have a reader with the time and sophistication to dig into the details of an MQ, the relatively importance to THEM, not Gartner, of various criteria has no voice. By not exposing the specific criteria, the ratings and the weightings the reader has no way to weigh in.  Some users have waved goodbye to MQs and switched to other benchmarks because the criteria is laid out, and the user can input their own weightings.

Maybe Gartner considers the &quot;secret sauce,&quot; the mystery, to be key to the panache, appeal and power of the MQ.  I understand that from a marketing perspective certainly.  But as an ex-analyst, an ex-IT buyer/product manager, and now in AR my viewpoint on MQ is we deal with it because we have little choice, it is to IT benchmark analysis what Microsoft Windows is to PC client operating systems.

Just as many of us hope that Windows 7 will truly offer an enhanced computing experience (for those of us fated for one reason or another to not be Mac users), there is similarly latent hope that someday Gartner will completely dump the secret sauce for full transparency, and even better let the user manipulate what is important to them in the model.  Gartner has heard this for years (decades?) and made cursory strides.  Your post peels off a layer of the onion, it would be great if Gartner showed all the layers some day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jim.  I think what you present is the Gartner inside-out viewpoint, and that certainly is helpful.  But MQs and to a much lesser degree MarketScopes do not live in a vacuum of Gartner research. You allude to it briefly and somewhat cynically, but their real applicability, where they come alive, is in the market place. We have all heard of how a picture is worth a thousand words, and like it or not, the snap judgment made by the vast MQ reading population is &#8220;upper right hand quadrant = good, lower left quadrant = bad, other quadrants = not so good.&#8221;  This is not a vendor issue, it is human perception, and in this hurry up world where snapshots are replacing the truly written word, the superficial rather than in-depth consumption of MQs is increasing. It is naive to think that all IT consumers of MQs &#8220;get it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Gartner&#8217;s long-standing lack of transparency on MQs makes matters worse.  Even if you do have a reader with the time and sophistication to dig into the details of an MQ, the relatively importance to THEM, not Gartner, of various criteria has no voice. By not exposing the specific criteria, the ratings and the weightings the reader has no way to weigh in.  Some users have waved goodbye to MQs and switched to other benchmarks because the criteria is laid out, and the user can input their own weightings.</p>
<p>Maybe Gartner considers the &#8220;secret sauce,&#8221; the mystery, to be key to the panache, appeal and power of the MQ.  I understand that from a marketing perspective certainly.  But as an ex-analyst, an ex-IT buyer/product manager, and now in AR my viewpoint on MQ is we deal with it because we have little choice, it is to IT benchmark analysis what Microsoft Windows is to PC client operating systems.</p>
<p>Just as many of us hope that Windows 7 will truly offer an enhanced computing experience (for those of us fated for one reason or another to not be Mac users), there is similarly latent hope that someday Gartner will completely dump the secret sauce for full transparency, and even better let the user manipulate what is important to them in the model.  Gartner has heard this for years (decades?) and made cursory strides.  Your post peels off a layer of the onion, it would be great if Gartner showed all the layers some day.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Holincheck</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-1475</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Holincheck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/#comment-1475</guid>
		<description>I actually was not trying to engage with specific people on a specific MQ.  I was trying to address a broader issue in terms of understanding of MQs by end users, vendors, and others.  However, I am happy to comment on your blogs as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually was not trying to engage with specific people on a specific MQ.  I was trying to address a broader issue in terms of understanding of MQs by end users, vendors, and others.  However, I am happy to comment on your blogs as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Scavo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-1474</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Scavo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/#comment-1474</guid>
		<description>Jim, yes, thanks for the response. I do appreciate the engagement. 

Readers that would like to read the original blog posts that prompted Jim&#039;s note may click on my name above. My post is linked, and I link to those of others that also weighed in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, yes, thanks for the response. I do appreciate the engagement. </p>
<p>Readers that would like to read the original blog posts that prompted Jim&#8217;s note may click on my name above. My post is linked, and I link to those of others that also weighed in.</p>
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		<title>By: vinnie mirchandani</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-1473</link>
		<dc:creator>vinnie mirchandani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/jim_holincheck/2009/06/18/misunderstanding-magic-quadrants-marketscopes-and-more/#comment-1473</guid>
		<description>Jim, it is useful that you have outlined this. 

But why not engage in a direct conversation with Frank Scavo, Michael Doane, me and others on blogs we have recently written particularly about the recent mid-market ERP MQ In the new world of web transparency that would be so much better. 

I see vendors SAP (in particular) respond directly on blogs. Be nice if analysts did the same. Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, it is useful that you have outlined this. </p>
<p>But why not engage in a direct conversation with Frank Scavo, Michael Doane, me and others on blogs we have recently written particularly about the recent mid-market ERP MQ In the new world of web transparency that would be so much better. </p>
<p>I see vendors SAP (in particular) respond directly on blogs. Be nice if analysts did the same. Cheers</p>
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