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	<title>Comments on: Why There are No IAM Magic Quadrants: Resisting the Inevitable?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/2009/08/23/why-there-are-no-iam-magic-quadrants-resisting-the-inevitable/</link>
	<description>A member of the Gartner Blog Network</description>
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		<title>By: long view identity thoughts – Gartner IAM Summit 2009 part 2 &#171; Identity Sander</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/2009/08/23/why-there-are-no-iam-magic-quadrants-resisting-the-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-246</link>
		<dc:creator>long view identity thoughts – Gartner IAM Summit 2009 part 2 &#171; Identity Sander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 23:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/?p=100#comment-246</guid>
		<description>[...] the &#8220;magic ceiling&#8221;. Earl also revisited why there is still and likely to never be an IAM magic quadrant &#8211; there is no one definition to make a cohesive statement [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the &#8220;magic ceiling&#8221;. Earl also revisited why there is still and likely to never be an IAM magic quadrant &#8211; there is no one definition to make a cohesive statement [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Earl Perkins</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/2009/08/23/why-there-are-no-iam-magic-quadrants-resisting-the-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-97</link>
		<dc:creator>Earl Perkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/?p=100#comment-97</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the feedback, and I especially thank Ant for responding to Debra regarding another aspect of &quot;why&quot;? I believe that the IAM market isn&#039;t nearly as well defined as other markets and that one of the few constants in products for IAM is that they in some way impact &quot;identity&quot;, whether in creating them, watching them, enforcing them, etc. they aid in these processes in many different ways, and putting them together both as a suite and as a market isn&#039;t quite as clean and structured as it appears.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the feedback, and I especially thank Ant for responding to Debra regarding another aspect of &#8220;why&#8221;? I believe that the IAM market isn&#8217;t nearly as well defined as other markets and that one of the few constants in products for IAM is that they in some way impact &#8220;identity&#8221;, whether in creating them, watching them, enforcing them, etc. they aid in these processes in many different ways, and putting them together both as a suite and as a market isn&#8217;t quite as clean and structured as it appears.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/2009/08/23/why-there-are-no-iam-magic-quadrants-resisting-the-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Cunningham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/?p=100#comment-95</guid>
		<description>Earl,
 
Great post – it’s always interesting to see the thinking behind Gartner’s research calendar. Regarding an IAM Magic Quadrant, quite frankly I think it would not only be hotly contested on the vendor side but fairly irrelevant for end users. Customers by and large do not buy “suites” from a single vendor as much as they purchase suite components to solve specific business needs. Calling them “suites” is a misnomer – they are more like product families with loose affiliations. As you recently pointed out (G00166249), the actual integration between those component products is lacking. Most large companies purchase component products to solve the spectrum of security and compliance challenges under the IAM umbrella. They’re less interested in the best of breed vs. suite debate and are instead focused on what is the best technology that solves their problem most effectively. So in effect, there is no market “pull” for IAM suites obviating the need for a Magic Quadrant.

Looking forward to continuing the discussion at the IAM Summit,
 
Kevin Cunningham
President, SailPoint</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Earl,</p>
<p>Great post – it’s always interesting to see the thinking behind Gartner’s research calendar. Regarding an IAM Magic Quadrant, quite frankly I think it would not only be hotly contested on the vendor side but fairly irrelevant for end users. Customers by and large do not buy “suites” from a single vendor as much as they purchase suite components to solve specific business needs. Calling them “suites” is a misnomer – they are more like product families with loose affiliations. As you recently pointed out (G00166249), the actual integration between those component products is lacking. Most large companies purchase component products to solve the spectrum of security and compliance challenges under the IAM umbrella. They’re less interested in the best of breed vs. suite debate and are instead focused on what is the best technology that solves their problem most effectively. So in effect, there is no market “pull” for IAM suites obviating the need for a Magic Quadrant.</p>
<p>Looking forward to continuing the discussion at the IAM Summit,</p>
<p>Kevin Cunningham<br />
President, SailPoint</p>
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		<title>By: Ant</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/2009/08/23/why-there-are-no-iam-magic-quadrants-resisting-the-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-94</link>
		<dc:creator>Ant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/?p=100#comment-94</guid>
		<description>That’s a good question, Deborah! We may be able to learn something from our colleagues elsewhere in Research… 

I see that there is a MQ for ECM and a separate MS or MQ for records management and Web content management (WCM), two out of the six “core components” of ECM suites identified in the MQ.

But IAM isn’t ECM. 

As I said earlier, our experience is that identifying a common set of customer wants and needs for “an IAM suite” is elusive; it seems — to an outsider, and at first blush — that there may be greater consistency in user wants and needs for an ECM suite.

Pragmatically, there are too many important tools that might form part of many enterprises’ “ideal” IAM suite that are not yet offered by the major core vendors, which would skew a MQ in odd ways.

Furthermore, very few enterprises are in the “green field” state where they can “look at the suite Magic Quadrant and avoid the noise about more specialized vendors”, as they likely have some core IAM tools in place already.

And finally, as Earl pointed out in non-MQ/MS research earlier this year (G00166249), “real technology integration between the suite components of a single vendor (or components from different vendors) isn&#039;t significantly differentiating” — but having a single MQ for IAM might tend to imply (or lead readers to infer) that a suite from one vendor is somehow always inherently superior to an ensemble of tools from two or more vendors.

However, I’m not dismissing your suggestion, Deborah, and I’m sure my colleagues and I will revisit this idea when we gather to plan our 2010-11 research agendas.

— Ant</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s a good question, Deborah! We may be able to learn something from our colleagues elsewhere in Research… </p>
<p>I see that there is a MQ for ECM and a separate MS or MQ for records management and Web content management (WCM), two out of the six “core components” of ECM suites identified in the MQ.</p>
<p>But IAM isn’t ECM. </p>
<p>As I said earlier, our experience is that identifying a common set of customer wants and needs for “an IAM suite” is elusive; it seems — to an outsider, and at first blush — that there may be greater consistency in user wants and needs for an ECM suite.</p>
<p>Pragmatically, there are too many important tools that might form part of many enterprises’ “ideal” IAM suite that are not yet offered by the major core vendors, which would skew a MQ in odd ways.</p>
<p>Furthermore, very few enterprises are in the “green field” state where they can “look at the suite Magic Quadrant and avoid the noise about more specialized vendors”, as they likely have some core IAM tools in place already.</p>
<p>And finally, as Earl pointed out in non-MQ/MS research earlier this year (G00166249), “real technology integration between the suite components of a single vendor (or components from different vendors) isn&#8217;t significantly differentiating” — but having a single MQ for IAM might tend to imply (or lead readers to infer) that a suite from one vendor is somehow always inherently superior to an ensemble of tools from two or more vendors.</p>
<p>However, I’m not dismissing your suggestion, Deborah, and I’m sure my colleagues and I will revisit this idea when we gather to plan our 2010-11 research agendas.</p>
<p>— Ant</p>
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		<title>By: Deborah Volk</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/2009/08/23/why-there-are-no-iam-magic-quadrants-resisting-the-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah Volk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/?p=100#comment-93</guid>
		<description>Gartner publishes research for Enterprise Content Management suites, includinng a Magic Quadrant. From a market analysis perspective,  I don&#039;t see a lot of difference between ECM and IAM suites. There are large vendors with many (all?) components in both suites and there are vendors that excel only in a particular area (provisioning on IAM side or web content mgmt on ECM side). If customers want a suite, they can look at the suite Magic Quadrant and avoid the noise about more specialized vendors. If customers want a pure play solution or a best of breed assembly, they can drill down in separate Magic Quadrants that already exist today. Why can&#039;t Gartner do both suite and individual MQs on IAM side like it does with ECM?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gartner publishes research for Enterprise Content Management suites, includinng a Magic Quadrant. From a market analysis perspective,  I don&#8217;t see a lot of difference between ECM and IAM suites. There are large vendors with many (all?) components in both suites and there are vendors that excel only in a particular area (provisioning on IAM side or web content mgmt on ECM side). If customers want a suite, they can look at the suite Magic Quadrant and avoid the noise about more specialized vendors. If customers want a pure play solution or a best of breed assembly, they can drill down in separate Magic Quadrants that already exist today. Why can&#8217;t Gartner do both suite and individual MQs on IAM side like it does with ECM?</p>
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		<title>By: Ant</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/2009/08/23/why-there-are-no-iam-magic-quadrants-resisting-the-inevitable/comment-page-1/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>Ant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gartner.com/earl-perkins/?p=100#comment-92</guid>
		<description>You set out the points well, Earl. 

A market is defined by a common set of customer/client wants and needs; identifying that is relatively straightforward for those markets that we do cover in research, but rather elusive for IAM as a whole. 

Really, there’s no IAM “market”, it’s really a marketplace — or (in some technology areas) more like a sūḳ…

Gartner does publish research that covers “suites” or less formal ensembles of diverse IAM tools, just not using the Magic Quadrants or MarketScopes format.

Furthermore, Gartner does more than publish written research. Direct interactions with clients, in telephone inquiries or face-to-face, allows us to answer questions about which vendor (or vendors) can best meet any particular set of requirements or who has the best vision for “full-blown” IAM.

— Ant</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You set out the points well, Earl. </p>
<p>A market is defined by a common set of customer/client wants and needs; identifying that is relatively straightforward for those markets that we do cover in research, but rather elusive for IAM as a whole. </p>
<p>Really, there’s no IAM “market”, it’s really a marketplace — or (in some technology areas) more like a sūḳ…</p>
<p>Gartner does publish research that covers “suites” or less formal ensembles of diverse IAM tools, just not using the Magic Quadrants or MarketScopes format.</p>
<p>Furthermore, Gartner does more than publish written research. Direct interactions with clients, in telephone inquiries or face-to-face, allows us to answer questions about which vendor (or vendors) can best meet any particular set of requirements or who has the best vision for “full-blown” IAM.</p>
<p>— Ant</p>
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